Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:07 Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of why it matters. My name is Tracy <inaudible> I'm director of innovation here at now. It matters joined always by my co founder or co-founder in this endeavor, Tim,
Speaker 1 00:00:24 Welcome to the show.
Speaker 0 00:00:26 Um, today's guest is someone I think Tim and I can both say a lot about from many different angles. I'm super excited to have her on. I'll just only add my personal, uh, plug. And that is, I first met Rakia back through when I was a Salesforce MVP and in those circles and we bonded, I feel like over the idea that we need to talk about power and privilege and systemic structures a lot more in tech than we do right now. Uh, and as I just said, right before we hit record, I could gush about that for about another hour. Uh, but Tim, I don't know if you want to add color on that before we throw it over to Rakia to introduce herself.
Speaker 1 00:01:11 Yeah. Ricky and I have known each other for several years, um, and always mean to sit down, grab coffee talk, and, uh, for years now have been trying to do that. So this is the first long conversation that we've been able to have. I'm so looking forward to it. So welcome to the show, um, for Kia. And would you please introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 00:01:33 Yes. Thank you both for having me. I am Rakia Finley. I'm the founder and managing partner of copper and vine studio. We are a product development innovation firm based out in Washington, DC. I'm also an entrepreneur. Um, I do a number of investment ventures and I mentor and travel the world, talking about the power of emotional intelligence amongst some of the most excellent leaders in the world. So I'm really happy to be here.
Speaker 1 00:02:02 That's amazing. And your LinkedIn profile shows that same, that same kind of a journey for you. So I noticed that you have over 13 experiences and five of them say founder or co-founder. So this is a thing for you. Founding is like something that you do. Um, and, and I, I love following you because you go places. Um, can you tell us how you, how you started in, in that work?
Speaker 2 00:02:30 Yes. I love problems. I think problems are the most interesting thing that the universe will give you every single morning. You have an opportunity to solve a problem and solving that problem means that you might help someone's day be a little bit better. You might help something go a little faster or a little easier. Um, I loved that idea. So what you see through my experience of businesses, really me finding a problem that if I didn't solve it, I just would have been so disappointed. I also am interested and very passionate about what effective business looks like. Um, when I went to business school, I learned all these fantastic principles about what it meant to run a company and what I saw missing. And it was empathy, what I saw missing, and it was structure that allowed for ease and joy. Um, and I love the idea of starting companies around problems in which you know, that you are going to make someone's day just a little bit brighter.
Speaker 2 00:03:34 And the under that hood, you also create jobs and, um, beautiful life structures for people that allows them to wake up a bit happier. So there's this continuous win-win exchange. I also am an inventor, a database developer, a coder, and an engineer by trade. And those are things that I am deeply passionate about. Um, and I'm honored to be a black woman in those spaces with those skills, to be an example of what it looks like to create. Um, so a lot of those other companies you see are really me getting to show off the things that I'm good at.
Speaker 1 00:04:12 I I'm, I'm almost distracted by how positive you are. Do you do people say that a lot? Like there's a lot of pain and suffering in this world and it is like someone cranked up the dial on that. And I consider myself an optimist. I even have like creating hope as part of the lofty ideals of now. It matters I'm not getting where you're getting, but also is like, I can't get there. What, um, you know, what, what does that, what, how do you, how do you be that?
Speaker 2 00:04:46 Yeah, my friends would agree with you, but my optimism sometimes it's not always welcomed. You know, I, my experience as a very young child in this world was one of low economic understanding. I come from a very impoverished area and Portland, Oregon, majority of my childhood experiences were those around criminal, um, endeavors. And I was met with my losing my life at five years old and with a gun in my face, um, within a person's full intention of killing me to make a point to my father. And it was in that moment where I begged for not only my life, but the life of my brother and my mother. And we were able to walk away from that day. And from that day, we went through a journey of deep poverty to get away from what was not a healthy environment. And when I got into grad school and got a bit older and learned about these passions and skills that I had, it simply was an opportunity to get me and the family that I cared for out of those experiences and out of those impoverished experiences.
Speaker 2 00:05:59 And I never really saw it beyond that. And then, um, the, the joy of activating and moving into your purpose in life is all of a sudden you look up and you have these really beautiful ways in which you get to pour into the world. I wake up every day with understanding that I was not supposed to be here, but it has been very intentioned that I am. So every day is a good day. Every day is a day that I get to choose life. Every day is a day that I get to hold whether or not I live or die. And it makes being positive really easy because if there is something in this world that is causing me not to be optimistic, well, what is that? Tim? That's a problem. So that means that there's something we have to solve.
Speaker 1 00:06:44 So to sum up your positive, because when you were five, someone held a gun to your head, like that is like, I'm sorry, but that just ratchets up like, oh, okay, well, yeah. Then of course, I mean that, that's an obvious connection there. So, um, I think that's, that's such an incredible paradigm to view your history through, um, and
Speaker 0 00:07:07 Sharing that really it's super vulnerable when folks talk very openly about what shapes them. Um, and I just want to say thank you for that, because I feel like even in my own life experiences, I heard myself in that, um, Tim and I recorded our Wyatt matters back, oh a few months ago. And for both of us, the topic of those days where we thought of literally ending our lives came up, um, and, and growing up the way I did and coming up through the things that I came through, particularly as a queer person and a super-duper like gender variant person, you know, I gave myself an expiration date at 25 years old. I was like, I'll be dead by 25. And I'm going to live my whole life that way. And it didn't happen. And that was actually a crisis that forced me to ask some of those same questions. So thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 2 00:08:06 And I think optimism is, is more fun that way, either way, you're going to have an issue either way the day is going to do with the date does either way adults be adults, right? Like either way it's going to happen. So why choose to lean into the bad of it? You're going to get out of it. If you didn't believe you were going to get out of it, you wouldn't be complaining about it. You wouldn't be talking about it. You wouldn't give it energy. If you really truly accepted defeat of anything of any situation. So if you haven't accepted the feet because you've given it energy, then it's up to you, how you choose to move through it and you can choose to move through. It's sad and sad is okay. I I'm an active crier. So sad is okay, but choosing to not see the light in a dark situation is choosing just to hide under the covers. So find the light and fight like hell to find the light.
Speaker 1 00:09:09 Ricky, I've met a lot of people that are comfortable in their own skin. I think you're one of the first people I've met, that's comfortable in their own soul. And I think that there's, there's a, there's a, there's a way that you're getting at that, that, that goes, that goes beyond both mental and emotional acuity, which, I mean, you're loaded with both. So like that helps I'm sure. But, um, but there's, there's, um, there's just something I feel in your soul and, and every time I'm around you, I feel it. So this is not an isolated experience. I just recognize it more, getting more context for it. So I just want to thank you for that and saying that, um, there, there are a few people in life who, when you're around them, you know, yourself better because of that, I feel like, um, even in this conversation, it's brief as it's been so far, that's already true, and I'm really grateful for that. And I know that I know, um, and suspected, but then confirmed, um, that faith, faith is an underlying piece of what happens for you in that. Um, and, and so I, both Tracy and I have talked about this, uh, you know, that we have very, very different faiths. Um, but that faith is actually really important in what we do. Uh, I think I'd, I'd like to know what role faith has played in helping you be who you are.
Speaker 2 00:10:38 Oh yeah. The universe is so important. Um, you know, in this world of technology being in the technology industry, it really can, if you allow it allow you to kind of believe that you can will at all, or, you know, just with a couple lines of code, you can make the world change and it almost can easily kind of create this power complex around, especially if you create things for other people for a living. So for me, my faith journey and my spiritual journey is that one of one self guidance, self boundary of me always being able to say, am I being the most morally based person? Am I being the most empathetic person? Um, my spiritual journey is really mine and my alone. And I think that is something I've learned is a lot different than others from time to time. Is, is that spiritual journey, you asking so many people to the party or is it actually a journey of, of true self of you understanding why with all this dust and particle with all of who I am?
Speaker 2 00:11:47 Why was I, why am I here? I'd like to believe, but, um, I'm here just for me. I don't think that anyone on this earth is, is simply just meant for them to exist and take up space. And I struggled with that at a young age because I was in tech. So I was just like, well, I'm not meant to be anybody. I'm just supposed to code some things and build some websites and call it a day. And I really had to go deep within myself to say, what is my purpose here? Why would you give me these, these such binary skills and such passionate ways of being, um, they didn't feel like they went together. And the spiritual journey was me really getting deep understanding around all of me, of why all of me was poured into. And then from that journey that really learned and got excited about the more that I pour into myself, the more that I learn about myself, the more that I get in connection with what I believe I'm meant to pour into this world, the more I'm able to do it, the better I'm at I'm at it, right?
Speaker 2 00:12:56 The more I believe that every idea that I have is meant to be a blessing to somebody somehow in some way, it makes those ideas a little bit easier, right? When I choose to believe that every conversation and I have very difficult business discussions, I still am a business owner that does acquisition deals and investment deals. I had the same card conversations as every CEO you've ever spoken to, but I believe that in every conversation there is a win-win approach to it because I believe that in my spiritual journey, I am not placed on this earth to cause pain, difficulty, complexity, or stress, right? So if I'm telling you something that is stressing you out, we get to get honest about it. So my spiritual journey is one of being able to be a calm and hearing and, and powerful leader. It also is one of me being able to gut check why it is I have the privilege I have, because it's meant to be a blessing to others. It also is meant to be a guide for me to understand the silence necessary for me to hear beyond myself beyond what's in front of me. It is a real indicator of where my scarcity exists. And I think a lot, when we think about where we can do what we can do in our society is remove as much scarcity. We have too much scarcity mindset in our world. So it also is this believers, this immediate activation of abundance. Um, I think with all those things, it just makes things go a little bit more smoother.
Speaker 0 00:14:36 I love everything you said. It's funny, Tim alluded to this, we come from two very different faith traditions. Uh, you know, mine, as I think I've shared with you before, like I'm actually an ordained goddess priestess in the temple of ISIS. And one of the things that's funny is when you take on that kind of faith journey, there is this sort of like, if you almost think about the way that I've described it is there's this third rail on the subway train, right? That's like 700 volts and you get that kind of energy imbued in you. And your first inclination is to act and to react and to do and to do everything. And when I have had the privilege of training now initiates in our sort of temple, I say, that's actually the last thing that you need to do. The first thing you need to do is figure out how that is forcing you to listen and observe to what's around you. Uh, and that is then from which momentum is built, not immediate action. Uh, and yet at the same time, something I want to dig into with you is you have started a retreat series called by grace. I have been a fan and follower of this, uh, for a long time since they started. And someday I will show up on those shores, but tell us a little bit of
Speaker 1 00:16:19 Intimidated about implying to that, by the way, Tracy must've started that application six times and I'm like, oh man,
Speaker 0 00:16:28 Like, yeah, no, I I'm just saying isn't
Speaker 1 00:16:31 Completing it. It would be showing up. So I'm curious to be able to say,
Speaker 0 00:16:35 Oh, no, well even worse, like even worse, like to the exact premise of why by grace exists, I'm like, I'm too tired to do this right now. I like, oh my God, there's a thousand other things that are calling for my priority. I will put this back and can come back to it when I am not so tired. Um, and I think that is the trap we get in as Changemakers and faith workers and believers and things bigger than us. And I I'd love to hear more about that in your words.
Speaker 2 00:17:09 Absolutely. Um, I can't wait for both of you to attend by the way. You're absolutely right. Once you apply it, is you coming like that is your commitment. I can't wait. I love that. Um, five grace began five years ago and um, our very first by grace was in Barcelona. So first by grace is a restoration and executive leadership retreat made for PR Changemakers leaders and founders all over the globe. And we don't go to the same place twice. And we call every, um, by grace retreat, the participants that attend, we call them cohorts because then work together and separately over a course of seven days to identify true restoration, true rest and true retreat. Um, and there's some philosophies around that that come out of it the very first. Why, why don't we start by grace? Um, began at the time I had copper and vine and the work that I do is I am honored to work with a number of amazing founders and entrepreneurs bringing their products and companies into the market.
Speaker 2 00:18:21 And those people still say on either as clients or friends. And over that year, I had ushered over close to, I think we were at $150 million in acquisitions over the course of that year. And it was a great year. A lot of these were startups and small ideas. Um, and within those clients, three of them can be that suicide after that acquisition and wow, in this discussion and having social friends in that same tax bracket also not doing okay. And this was before the pandemic and it really became an empathetic, empathetic call to action of saying, what is wrong, right? Why, what aren't we saying out loud? All these people have therapists. They have assistants and staff. They have everything that we say that you need to not have these things. And Barcelona was us inviting some of those identified leaders to Barcelona and saying, leave your phone right here.
Speaker 2 00:19:25 Just leave your phone right here and walk with us. And let's have a discussion about who it is you are. And if you're okay. And what we identified in that first couple of hours is nobody was okay. And there were these very successful and powerful, and this was our all with this, this one particularly was all men. And, um, the amount of discussions we had around what was being lost. And in the midst of having those, what is lost, what is missing from my reality, we started activating them while we were in Barcelona. So I miss, I don't have art in my life. Great. Let's go on a walking tour and experience art. Let's go paint on the beach. Let's, let's activate it back into your life. That continues. And we went from Barcelona to Los Angeles, where we worked with a number of, um, entertainers and Hollywood, um, influencers, um, and saw the same need, saw the same.
Speaker 2 00:20:22 I'm not okay and activated those same seven days. And then we went to Turks and Nope. Then we went to Cayman islands and we saw the same thing, all these pioneering international leaders and change makers that were not okay. Um, and then we went to Turks and Caicos and had that same experience. Now we get to go to Anguilla. What we identify in that first day of not okay is simply just a gut check and an acknowledgement. What in your life are you retreating from what have you vacated Trump? And what is it that you were truly meant to do in this world? So now we have the understanding. Now let's bridge the gap in these seven days. And how do we do that? What we identify is there's tons of retreats out there for executive leaders all over the world. Majority of them require you to go into a forest and eat mushrooms off the ground and only consume water and question your life.
Speaker 2 00:21:14 Right. And what we've told ourselves is this is an experience that most CEOs need because they need to learn humility. When we start talking about our entrepreneurs and our leaders of color, when we start talking about our leaders of different experiences, when we stopped talking about our SIS gen leaders, and actually start looking at our colorful demographic of influencers, they don't need to eat mushrooms off the ground. What they have yet to experience is a high life of abundance without restriction, but they have never been able to ideate themselves and full bloom without any sense of ceiling or glass or cis-gendered or white Anglos peeping down on them. So how on earth would we ask this? Generation's Aristotle's how on earth would we ask this? Generation's Einstein's this generation's Mahatma. Gandhi's this generation's how dare we ask them to see change in this world when they can't even see themselves, has your salary requirement pass your demographic count?
Speaker 2 00:22:32 So for seven days we bring these beautiful spirits to a place and we allow them to experience abundance and see themselves in it. And then we ask them a question of who are they when they have everything they need when this society, and this world is bending at their foot, because we know in them we need change. And we asked them to think of those things and write them down. And hopefully if we do our job, right, they'll go back home and they won't be retreating. They will be requiring of their lives to be better. So we hope
Speaker 0 00:23:09 Literally had to stop myself from tearing up. Um, it reminds me a few months back. Uh, Tim and my wife, Amy actually gave me a beautiful intervention. Uh, one of the parts to my story is I had a really rough ending the 2019 in a way that honestly should be in the courts, uh, with a former employer. And I'm just like out of energy or care to keep pursuing it. You know, I've had a lawyer tell me, it's not like there aren't multiple tort violations here. It's just that the path to solving this is about five years. And I don't have the time for that shit anymore. I really don't. But it produced an effect in me that has resonated through my work. And finally, Tim and my wife sat me down and they were like, shut up and stop thinking of yourself as a has-been like, you were actually at the start of something and not at the end of something.
Speaker 0 00:24:12 So shut up with that bullshit. And I was like, um, okay. And, but, you know, to the point around learning and growing, um, what I love about everything that you said is that it, how very broadly inclusive it is, uh, and, and how inclusive the journey of faith is. Uh, because honestly I see it too. I see it in executives that I work with now, I see it in, I have some lingering ties to Hollywood in the democratic party, and I see it in those leaders. Everybody's running short on faith and belief in themselves because the hurdles that we all perceive and are so good at articulating feel so much more insurmountable every day that we're like, I'll take care of this stuff later. Uh, and thank you for bringing the stuff that we all say I'll take care of later back into the limelight, because I think for all of us, that's what started us on those journeys in the first place. And, and that's a beautiful reminder of that. So thank you for that.
Speaker 2 00:25:27 No problem. It's been an honor. I mean, the honesty is where asking. I mean, you guys do it so well. We're asking for a society that doesn't have systematic oppression. We're asking for a society that allows equal equity all across the gamut to do that. We need to know that the people in which we are setting intentions for change for are prepared to walk in them. And the analogy I gave one time, it was someone with a right, hoping to write a big check to somebody to solve all the world of, of racism. Just thought a check would solve it. And I
Speaker 0 00:26:07 Use helpful. I'll just say that.
Speaker 2 00:26:11 So we began this, what can we do? What can we do? And I said, you know, this is a fantastic offering, but what you now are asking is to build a fantastic mansion and to ask someone from the hood to live in it. Yep. And it's unfair for an assumption to think that there is this, this grand fix that does not require a restoration of a society and a generation to fix it. I, you know, I build technology a living. I know that no matter what you build the most important conversation is the adoption strategy. And if we apply the adoption strategy to systematic oppression, we'd get a lot more honest about where we are in the project process of this journey of equality. And what by grace shows us is in this project process of adoption right now, I'd like, I'm going to liken this to a good website, refresh refurb.
Speaker 2 00:27:16 And right now what we have are CEO's that are depleted. We have CEO's and founders that are agitated, that has low tolerance that are tired of talking about. DEI are tired of talking about change, tied to spending money on it. And what we're not understanding is they require a different adoption strategy. Re-asking them to sign on to a different portal or asking them to, to enter their data in differently. And to see it output differently, we're asking them to omit the bad data. We're actually telling them that their data was bad, right? The data they've been processing and working on for so many years. So if we look at where we are, we need by grace because we need restoration and we need refurbs of our existing websites, but
Speaker 1 00:28:09 Because you were pointing to healing and reconciliation as
Speaker 2 00:28:13 Exactly. Yeah. So we get to allow you to still be, but we need to put a new process, right? A new, uh, coding structure under you. And in that process, you might get to look a little cuter. And with that, we also get to create an adoption of our new users. This is their first time signing on to this platform. This is their first time downloading this software of freedom and equality and equity and try without dying. And that's a platform they've never seen work. They never signed off it. Ain't never been available. The site always been down, so
Speaker 1 00:28:55 That's been error 4 0 4 for 400 years thinking that.
Speaker 2 00:29:02 So we have to, we have two projects in alignment from my perspective. And I'd like to believe that's a copper and bind and by grace do as a collective unit within this project.
Speaker 1 00:29:18 So interesting that you're talking about, um, about that, because, um, a couple of years ago, I got so fed up with not knowing if the work we had done for nonprofits and implementing at that time Salesforce, but whatever system, several years later had it actually accomplished what it was supposed to do. And I, I ha I could not honestly say whether it, it had or not. And when we're looking at sometimes the largest or second largest capital investment that a nonprofit has made and I'm taking that money. And I can't be sure if that, that actually had the intended objectives met at the end of it. I, I, I just said, I can't play that game anymore. Not in good conscience. And so we re scripted how we engage, um, and, and ended up, you know, coming up with a methodology around digital transformation. But the aha moment for me was that we kept compartmentalizing change into a project instead of understanding that the organization itself and the humans in that organization were actually the most important thing to change, you know?
Speaker 1 00:30:30 And so we developed, you know, uh, uh, there's this, the tech stack that's very carefully architected. And then the human stack is just almost like, you know, at the end of the project, here you go. And, you know, um, hope it works and realize exactly what you're talking about. You know, it's not just an adoption strategy, it's actually a shift in culture. And interestingly enough, that led us to a theory of change that indexes staff, directors, and executives they need, you know, staff need data. Um, information is what's needed by directors and executives need insight. And so just framing it out as there are different personas that work here, and you have to actually think about each one individually and stop compartmentalizing and focusing on the project. And instead say like the outcome here is a new organization, as I think that has so much application to what you're talking about with DEI, um, because there's never been more funding and more frustration around it.
Speaker 1 00:31:34 Right. And it it's it's. Um, so I think that that's just interesting. Um, I think that was, I think that's as much as I can say as a white guy, cause I feel like then I run out of runway on this and it's not my experience in the same way. Um, but it is something you care about deeply. I read a lot about. And, um, and, and, and do whatever work I can do, which feels pretty minimal. Um, and I think that that's, I it's just so refreshing to hear your perspective on that. Um, the other thing that I think it would be easy to, not, to not know. And I only happen to know this because I was when I met you or shortly after the next Dreamforce, maybe we were, we were hanging out. And you told me about, um, how lonely it is as a, uh, as a black woman who is a founder to get invited to these, you know, VIP parties of executives at, at, you know, at Dreamforce and, and to show up and be for ID in a seam that you're not part of that conversation. And when you're in there being asked for more food, because you're assumed to be the caterer. And I feel like I don't, what I can't reconcile is your, your peace and calmness with that as a backdrop, because that was not, I did not get the sense that it was an isolated incident. Um, can you, can you speak to that? Is that like, how do you, how do you reconcile the peace and confidence that you exude with the, with the anger and justifiable, anger, and frustration that you experienced?
Speaker 2 00:33:14 That's a loaded questions, Tim. I love it. Um, no, it has not been an isolated incident. I, you know, I, I was my own, my, my boss, I guess at 19 years old, I've never worked for anyone really, other than my clients, who I love, um, my most of my adult life. And, um, I've had some of my most prominent accolades in my life before I hit 22. So I built, you know, the Starwood hotels. I was 21 years old when we launched that, um, Alma, the first artificial intelligence that spoke diverse namings that was before I was 25. So I internally always existed in a very executive space. It was not until I got a team and a bigger team that required me to be that executive and start going into these events in these spaces. And then you get a marketing team. The marketing team is telling you to go into these events and spaces, and here I am, and these events and spaces, um, and a bit from a naive space, I, I was blessed to go to an HBCU where I was surrounded by black excellence.
Speaker 2 00:34:28 My mentors were black. Excellent. Um, um, leaders, I have community, I will say my number one tip for anyone that experiences, what I experience is have a community that you can go to and talk to and talk it out with Tracy. And I bonded over those frustrations and those realities. Um, and you do need that. You simply just, there's a real list component to it of saying there is still work for us to do. And I am still a victim. And, and, and part of the work for me to see that the work that we're doing, right, I'm still a victim to the systematic oppression that we are trying to change. It keeps me awake, right? So what I learned through walking in those spaces and having those moments, I think in the beginning of my career, anger, that's all I ever felt. I think I showed it.
Speaker 2 00:35:22 You know, I think you get to a point in your life where you know how to make your anger look cute, and you know how to chuckle it off or find your friends or find your comfort. I think my number one trick was I knew why I was there. I never let anyone tell, tell me why I in a room. I always knew I was in a room. So no matter what took place I could, whether I needed to find a bathroom, whether I needed to find a corner, you know, whether I needed to take a shot, whatever I needed to do, I would reset and remind myself while I was in a room. Um, and eventually what my anger turned into as I think I matured in my career was asking more questions. Well, why, why do you think I'm the waiter? Why do you need my ID?
Speaker 2 00:36:07 And you did not need heads. I'm inquiring because I don't understand the difference that allowed you to just get more educated. And I think there is power in being deeply aware in other people's ignorance. And instead of assuming their ignorance, because my assumptions to ignorance were always dangerous. My assumption to why the system gendered white man asked me if I assumed that I worked here is far more dangerous than the answer of his ignorance. If I were to inquire. And when I learned that it was, my mother identifies it, as she said, I have an issue with I'm addicted to looking the, going to the belly of the beast. Mom's like, you're going to get swallowed. You love going to the belly of the beast. And for me, it was bad. It was. So now I'm kind of in a space where I inquire, I'm interested.
Speaker 2 00:37:01 Why on earth would you think someone like me that looks like me would what needs to hold your jacket? Right? And we get to have a honest discussion about the honesty of what's happening in this world when it comes to race and oppression and unconscious bias. And I've been speaking on unconscious bias for over 10 years of my career, it is still deeply unconscious. It is still not being called out in a way that is going to hurt of it. Right? We're still giving participation trophies to oppression. It is still lonely, right? I am still the only black woman in that space, in that room. I might have a couple of friends with me, right. But I'm still one of a particular circumstance as a CEO and a business owner that can walk in and say particular things. I can say whatever I want to on this podcast, right?
Speaker 2 00:37:58 There's no one's going to jeopardize my check. I can talk any way that I want to talk. I can live whatever life I want to live. That is not a reality for predominantly majority predominant. Majority of black people in this world do not have 75% of the social privilege. I'm not even talking about financial, the social privilege that I have in my reality. And I still might get a coat handed to me. And it's easy to think that I can do something about it. It's easy to think that a check can do something about it. This is a societal generational, you know, concern and issue that has plagued our society for generations. It cannot be fixed by one voice. And what I get opted, why I get so optimistic about it is because I know the pro the pro is the solution to my problem.
Speaker 2 00:38:56 I know that when I walk into that executive space post COVID and I see a multitudes of me, I don't have to worry. I can get obsessed with the problem, right. I can get obsessed with the selfish problem around it, of me being lonely in that space. Or I can get really honest about the solution. The next time I walk in here, I need to make sure that there is more of me than that. So now let me go back and do what I need to do. I don't have to sit in this, this gate, this reception hall to figure that out. I don't have to remember his name. I don't have to ask for his permission. I don't have to ask for his acceptance. I just need to know I need to go back. And the next time I see him, he needs to be the only one here. And I get to make that choice. I get to create that change, that influence. So maybe I still do get a little bit angry, but I think I just put it somewhere else, maybe.
Speaker 0 00:39:47 Yeah. Well, I appreciate your comments on that. Yeah. I think what's interesting in everything that you said. I mean, you're also, first of all, like I hear echoes of Malcolm X a little bit in, in, in what you're saying. And I love that. Um, I also, you know, love that what you are talking about in some ways is restorative justice and you know, how that shapes the world that we live in. Uh, and, and I thought immediately of like van Jones, his work with the redemption project. And I was like, okay, like, and I think one of the things that's true. I mean, even for me, like, thank you for showing me the path beyond anger. Cause I'm still more, I'm like 60% anger, 40% something else. Uh, and, and somehow that manifests itself in those rooms where I'll occasionally find like the white boy in the sort of penguin suit whom I know isn't exact and be like, I'm sorry, can I get more food?
Speaker 0 00:40:47 Um, just to be kind of, you know, turn the script on that a little bit. Um, do you know what I can get a Coke, uh, because I can be that way and that's okay. But you know, one of the other things I want to ask you about is, is we, we, we had a plan for this discussion and now we are in such a deep, amazing philosophical territory. I don't want to leave it, but you're talking about wide scale culture change. You're talking about wide-scale perception change. You're talking about undoing the things that allow all of us to participate better and with more of ourselves, but not in that disingenuous way of I, 50 black people and 50 Latinos and 50 queer folks to my company. And yay, my job is done. You know, you're talking about fundamental shifts. My theory on this has always been that until the very top layers vacate, even the best of those endeavors are not going to be able to retain those folks. And I'm wondering if you see a different path forward because power never gives itself up period, you know, power never concedes.
Speaker 2 00:42:10 Yeah. You know, I've grown and I blame this on my motherhood. Um, I've, I've grown to become a team player. And I think prior, uh, more ruthless version of me, uh, more, uh, in my more simplistic feminist thought, I think I had a different answer and this new generational answer, I look at my son a lot and I, I get very honest of anything that I pour into this world. At this point, you truly, you and your generation get to benefit more if I do this correctly. So I look at him a lot and I say, okay, what does he need? Unfortunately, that requires us to be team players. I believe in when we look at these top level executives and, um, where they are now, I am because of the position that I am. And I think my, I think my career for allowing me to be in particular rooms to know, to have a different perspective around our executives, it's been a long time since some of our top top executives have been, have really received pressure, social pressure, self pressure, uh, they've received financial pressure.
Speaker 2 00:43:24 They've received pressure that they had to then push onto their team, but we still are in a place where we aren't applying enough pressure on the founders and true leaders and check writers. That's how I like to reference them the true Trek writers of this industry. And, uh, we kind of take the second tier as, as penance and acceptance. I do not believe that's going to get us anywhere. I don't believe tearing down all the statues of existence. CIS gendered, you know, male white Anglos is going to solve the problem kind of, to my perspective earlier, I do believe that there is something that they get to experience that many of us experience every day. And that is a deep fight to stick around a deep fight, to continue to grow a deep fight, to keep your job. And I'd like to see executives, I'd like to see more diverse board team board members. I'd like to see more diverse investors. I'd like to see more diverse people that surround those people happen and then to apply pressure. Um, but I don't think telling CEO so-and-so to go and never come back to work again and go to his vacation home is now the Sutton going to make equality happen in that corporation. So I think we have to invite them to the hard party. Um, and not just the, let us tell you what we're doing party, which is sometimes I think we fall victim to some times.
Speaker 0 00:45:08 I agree with you a hundred percent. Um, also Cheryl Conti who wrote a whole book called the mechanical bowl, uh, about this and was one of our past guests here, also talks about this from a very sort of facts and statistics basis. And I don't know if we always do that in the way that she outlined and she's like, it is a fact that more diverse boards create better businesses. And she was able to literally pull facts and statistics out and say, here's how this works. And here's why it works. And that, that goes hand in glove with everything you just said about that exerting that pressure in new ways. So thank you,
Speaker 1 00:45:57 Uh, to that point, I know that you started, um, in copper and vine, you started a fund that is specifically aligned to creating that next generation. I'd love for you to talk about the Rico grant and what you see happening with that.
Speaker 2 00:46:14 Yeah. The Rico grant is really special to my heart. It's something we started, um, pretty much right when the pandemic began to two marches ago and it really came from the journey of the black lives matter movement, easily seeing a problem that needed to be solved and asking copper and vine and our entire team of saying, what problem did we get to solve in this? And we did two things. We, one built a mobile application called step forward, which is an app in the app store. That's available all throughout the world that allows people to take one step at a time towards advancing the conversation and actions towards equality. And it's a five-star rated app and it was built by our entire team. Second to that, we then launched the Rico grant project, which is an internal grant funded project by copper and vine that is taking black founders for profit or nonprofit and producing either $50,000 of their for-profit or $75,000 of their, for a nonprofit.
Speaker 2 00:47:20 So that right, 50,000 hours as a for-profit $75,000 as a nonprofit, um, towards building their platform. So towards building proprietor, Tori, um, dedicated platform, a solution that they would place into the industry or market, um, to solve a problem for their customers or constituents that has, um, it was supposed to be a year. It was a call to action around all the agencies and digital solution service providers in the U S that were at the time stating that they deeply cared about the movement and what was taking place stating that they were in solidarity to the black community and not necessarily putting action towards that statement. And as a black female founder of a software solutions agency, it felt, you know, very necessary for me to simply create a door. I'd like to believe of an example of what it looks like to truly try to solve a problem, especially in technology, what we know and this particular industry, when we look at founders, startups, technology companies is we still have a deep disparity of black founders.
Speaker 2 00:48:39 We still have a deep disparity, even as we look at black founders in technology, few of them actually own the proprietary technology in which they have started. So we still, aren't seeing equity in black tech. We're seeing, um, presence. We're not seeing equity. And if we continue down this path, it is my opinion that we aren't going to solve this problem. We all keep pointing out. So what this grant is hopefully going to allow us to do, or has allowed us to do in the past two years, we've, um, taking on the 15 startups, both non-profit and for-profit, and we'll be seeing them. They've been launching throughout the year, and we'll be seeing even more launched off the year. So you can stay connected with copper and vine studio, go to our website, compromised studio.com, sign up for our newsletter, and you always get to see our launches and you get to be our beta. You get to be a beta user for any of our startups, what that has already produced.
Speaker 2 00:49:39 Every startup, every one is a black founded. Majority of them are black woman found it, which is even more exciting. There's some of my favorite clients. I just love their innovation. They're all really great at innovative ideas. And it's really solving problems in communities and, um, under there's a lot under health that we're doing. Um, and we are going to continue to do it. So we're still taking applications for the Ricoh grant. And the requirement is you get to be a black founder and you get to build something. So it's not meant for you to just start a company. It actually is meant to get products in market. Why this is so important is when we look at the economic disparity between founders, it is the difference between a founder being able to build and sell their versus a founder. Not, we hope that with this grant, we will be one of the examples of how to, how to be a support to that. Um, and we hope that agencies will follow in our footsteps.
Speaker 0 00:50:39 That also, I mean, this is a total sidebar, uh, one of my projects, because you talk about finding what nurtures our soul is, I'm trying to write an actual scifi book. Um, and one of the dilemmas that one of the characters runs into that informs what she does next is that dilemma of being the creator of something versus being owner of something and how that ownership was taken out of her hands. Uh, and it informed your next series of actions in a way that radicalized her in a very different direction as a character. And I call this out because the connection that you just described as also something that one of our previous guests talked about, and that was Tiffany Spencer, who is the founder of HBCU forest. She talks about. There's a very big difference when you look at generational wealth and what ownership of your own destiny dots to generational wealth and, and Cheryl also in our previous discussion, talked about generational wealth as well, and the enormous disparity that exists there. So thank you for articulating a path towards creating that generational wealth and supporting it. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 00:51:56 Yeah, I I'm, I'm really, you know, I, I've been looking around at the market to figure out like, how do I get my proprietary work through now matters on the market. And so, like, I pick up anytime a fund hits and you know, so I saw your announcement on LinkedIn immediately went there and, uh, as an ally, I mean, as a business person, I wasn't as enthusiastic, but as an ally, I was excited to see one more place where I'm excluded. And I think that that is what we need to see. Like white allies need to see more and more is fewer places where we can just stroll in and have our thing work. And so thank you for creating a place where that doesn't work for me. We want to see more of that. Um, I know that's not at all the intention, um, but I actually marked progress on that when I look at, when I look at what the world needs to look like, it actually needs to be places that, um, yeah, that I can't, that I, that, that, uh, exclude me. And so I'm really excited about that fun. I'm really a love your work. Um, we will put the, we will put copper and vine in the show notes. And then, um, we, we hope you have a flood of applicants, um, in, uh, and it seems like you're going to keep doing this year over year. Is that, is that the intention?
Speaker 2 00:53:17 Oh yeah. By grace, isn't going anywhere. We actually have a projection then past next 10 years, we're actually going to buy an island and build a retreat for leaders all over the world.
Speaker 1 00:53:29 Sweet. Yep. That, that sounds enormous. And I have every confidence that that will happen. I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 0 00:53:41 I will never stop being grateful for these moments to unpick the really hard stuff and, and finding both commonality, but also education in, in those discussions. And I know this is going to be one of those recordings that our listeners look back on and were like, wow, I, I want to emulate this more. I want to be this more. So thank you.
Speaker 2 00:54:06 Thank you all. Think one, I've always loved this company. I love one the T the name of the company, and I love what you all do and how you do it. So unapologetically. So thank you for just being, not only an avenue, but a resource in so many ways. And so Tim and Tracy, and just, you know, Tim, I'm always an honor of how much you've poured into this community and Tracy, I just, your force is amazing. So thank you both.
Speaker 0 00:54:34 Thank you. I'm Tracy. Crohn's Zack, and you've been listening to why it matters.
Speaker 1 00:54:42 Why it matters is a thought leadership project of now it matters a strategic services from offering, advising and guiding to nonprofit and social impact organizations.
Speaker 0 00:54:51 If you like what you've heard, please subscribe, check out our playlists and visit us at now. It matters.com to learn more about us.
