Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hi everyone. This is Tracy Crohn's Zack director of innovation at now. It matters the following video contains information about sexual assault and or violence that may be triggering to some audiences.
Speaker 1 00:00:21 Welcome everyone to a, another edition of why it matters. I'm Tracy director of innovation here at now. It matters.
Speaker 2 00:00:31 I'm Tim Lockie CEO here at now matters. We are really excited about the guests that we have today. Christine Priester, who I've known for almost three years now. And Christine's story is, um, is something that we have been looking forward for months to be able to record for all of you. Um, and so really excited. Christine, welcome. Thanks for, um, thanks for joining us today. Um, we, uh, I'm, I'm going, usually we have, uh, our guests introduce themselves in. You're welcome to, but I do want to say just a few words would not be surprised if Tracy does as well. And what I want to say is that there are, um, there are some people that you go through life where the, who they are is unforgettable and, um, and, and you are one of those people for me, um, because you, you became a family to me and Jenny, while you worked at now matters. And, um, and I miss you being here even though I'm really excited about the way that your career has progressed. Um, and so, um, you know, I am really excited about having you here, so thank you for joining us. Um, and thanks for being that, being that kind of person. So
Speaker 3 00:01:56 Thank you, Tim. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 00:01:59 Yeah. I'm not going to add anything I want to, I kind of want to jump into this. What I will say is I really have had the pleasure of working in association with you for the entirety of my time at now. It matters until you left and moved on to, uh, I hope more fertile ground. Um, but at the same time, you know, one of the things that I've always appreciated about working with you and being friends with you has been that notion that there's a lot of bullshit that we can cut through really quickly with some pure honesty about who we are and what we're doing. And I think you have always brought that to your work and it is unbelievably admirable to me to simply be a participant along that journey.
Speaker 3 00:02:53 Thank you, Tracy. And it's great to be here. I'm very excited. Thank you for having me. Um, so I'm just going to dive in and introduce myself. My name is Christine Priester. I, excuse me. I currently work as a consultant for a company called Hiller consulting. Um, we focus on providing CRM solutions to nonprofit organizations. Yeah, so I started off as an executive assistant and as I learned more about Salesforce, um, I was very intrigued. I've always been interested in technology. Um, in 2009, I initially was going to school for computer science. So it was just coincidence, 10 years later here I am at an it company, uh, which was great. Um, but now it matters was definitely an, a huge icebreaker for me. Um, personally and professionally, um, being a victim of trafficking, I was able to show up as my authentic self. Um, everybody was aware of my past and I didn't have to have, I didn't have to walk in the door with any shame.
Speaker 3 00:04:07 Um, so yeah, I started off as an executive assistant and then I Excel too. Um, I was promoted to be engagement consultant, um, where I was able to manage several accounts at one time. Um, I did that for about a year and then I became a system administrator, um, for about nine months and then I transitioned to Heller. Um, one thing I really wanted to talk about was my journey as a black woman, uh, who faced many barriers in life overall, uh, while that now matters and just how companies can really support women like me that have faced the barriers that I faced, um, during my time at not matters, I consider everybody family, um, the way that I was treated, uh, everybody was so helpful. Everybody was so loving. Everybody was so kind and they were so motivated. You all were so motivated to teach me and to empower me and make sure that I was successful.
Speaker 3 00:05:24 And that really meant a lot to me. Um, and it really helped, you know, coming from my background and living in, or dealing with the amount of shame that I was dealing with while I was working at this company. You know, when I first came in, I, I was intimidated. Um, you know, this was like a big deal for me to have this position. And just, I'm really grateful for the amount of support that I received during that time. And it was really important for me because I felt like I was a part of something for once in my life. And I felt like I was accepted and I didn't have to worry about, you know, what people thought of me or, you know, whether my past define me or not. I knew my past has defined me, but working at this company really validated that for me. And I felt accepted.
Speaker 2 00:06:27 I remember, um, when I think it was after you had been at now, it matters for almost a like six months to a year was when I realized like, oh, um, there's, there's some, sometimes there's intimidation, um, from, from you because it, what I saw over and over again, was you joining meetings and immediately increasing the interest fun and quality of the meetings. And so it, it, it was such a sock to me to find out that there was any kind of, uh, of that intimidation, um, when, when you first started. Um, and I, and I, I want to say there's, there's a lot of power in the authenticity that you would bring to conversations, to accounts, to, you know, um, your perspectives when we would, when we would have, um, times that, that we would do team building, uh, like you were, you were so present and willing to talk. It just, I just didn't know for a long time. Um, and so, yeah, I I'm surprised by that. Um, I think I'm mostly surprised, I didn't know until later, but, um, what can I ask? What, um, do you feel like that sense at the beginning of who am I, and that, that sense of belonging, how, how did, how did not matter as foster that and, um, and, and make sure that that was part of what you experienced while we, while you were here?
Speaker 3 00:08:09 Um, well, more, most importantly, now it matters, talked about, I mean, working there, we talked about often being authentic and how important was, and, you know, we had team building sessions around how we can be ourselves and just overall being your authentic self is challenging. Um, but now it matters, provided a space for me to be my authentic self and to be accepted, if that makes sense. Um, you know, again, everybody was just so genuine and, you know, I can tell that everybody really cared about me, not just as a colleague, but as a person. And it, it was genuine. And for me, I've never had that in my life. Like I've never had that space where I was surrounded with people that were truly genuine and truly cared about me as a person. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2 00:09:19 Didn't at the time, I feel like as I've gotten to know you more, I, it does now make more sense, but I remember when you would say that early on, when you were like, I haven't, I haven't experienced this before. Um, I didn't understand what the, this was until I got to know you better. Um, you know, and, um, and so, yeah, I, and I feel like that is, I think that that was not just me, that was also Joni and Angela and Jenny and Justin, you know, um, that, that were around and, and part of that as well. Um, but I also want to be really clear. I think that your willingness to engage and have that conversation and share what you were experiencing was really transformational for now, it matters and understanding, oh, this is actually a part that we can plan this. Um, and you know, I mean, you and I have had conversations even since then about, um, you know, not everything was really easy at now. It matters. And there was some really helpful feedback that you gave me about, uh, about being there, um, which I would be fine with you sharing. I don't want to share what's yours, but I think, I think some of that would be helpful because not matters does really try, but I don't think that we are perfect. Um,
Speaker 3 00:10:40 Well, I always say, you always say that to him, um, that, you know, you're not perfect, but you were definitely perfect for me. I, as a black woman, um, I felt very loved and accepted that now matters. And it meant a lot. Um, and you know, just the fact that you were willing to accept that, that I was able to come to you and you were able, you were willing to accept that feedback. Like that meant a lot. I had a, I felt like I had a voice and my entire life. That was my problem. I never had a voice. I never had anybody to listen to me or to take me serious, or if I had concerns, you know, and that's why it's so important to me, um, like working at the company, my experience, like now it matters had such an impact on me because like, this was the first time in my life where I had a voice.
Speaker 3 00:11:43 And it's crazy because these are people that I don't even know, you know, and this is a job, but it wasn't just a job. It was like, it became a family. And again, going back to me being a black woman, that's what I love about being in this ecosystem is, you know, it's a community and not every company is like that, you know, but you are, and you provided me with a space where I could be empowered and turn my pain into power. Like I never thought I would be working on it after everything I went through. I never thought that I would be an engagement consultant or a Salesforce administrator, but you pave the path for me. And every step of the way everybody was there to support me,
Speaker 2 00:12:49 Sort of feel like I'm getting a lot of credit for work that, uh, that I think that you hear is collective. Like now it matters as a leadership team. Like I that's, that's not all me, that's really Angela Joni, Rachel, um, Tracy stope. But, um, you can't imagine how, how glad I am to hear that. That was your experience, Christine. Um, even though I've heard it before, um, I am really glad that was your experience, Tracy. Sorry to cut you off.
Speaker 1 00:13:22 No, it's okay. I mean, I think, you know, based on that I have two follow-ups, uh, directly for you Christie, and I think one is, and, and we were just talking about this in the previous episode with Makita about that value of connection and community and what it facilitates for a person and the types of communication. It enables that aren't direct communication that happened during the everyday span of the work day. Right. And you know, when we talk about community, I think, you know, there is this thing, I'm not personally a memes person. I'm not like all over the social media. I mean, for the morass of pop culture, knowledge that I carry in my head, like I use LinkedIn and I occasionally look at somebody's pretty graphic there, but there was a discussion recently that led with a meme about real leaders first lead with connection and then competence.
Speaker 1 00:14:34 And if you try to do it in reverse, what happens is the need to drive competence will actually intimidate the living hell out of the people that you're actually trying to include in your leadership in the first. And what I'm hearing you say, Christine, is that, that was true to your experience. And that was, you needed a place to have a communal experience so that you had a minute to not be so worried about, like, you know, is like my hair perfectly. Okay. And am I okay? Am I showing up right and so forth so that you can just relax and breathe for a second?
Speaker 3 00:15:18 Exactly. And not focus on my false.
Speaker 1 00:15:22 Exactly. And then the second follow-up is, is I think there is a lot of abstract discussion in our world, particularly the world of it. And particularly the world of businesses that work and operate in it. That is kind of very like, oh, I don't know what this means about DEI. I don't know how to facilitate equity. I don't know how to facilitate community and all of these experiences by all of these people are just very uncomfortable for me to learn about. And what is unique about your story is that there are a lot of assumptions baked into what happened to you as a person that I think two things happen. Either people make immediate judgment about you, or second people make immediate judgment about what you're capable of becoming. And I want to know a little bit more what, what that looks like from your lens, not these sort of giant abstractions that we talk about needing an aggregate across our industry.
Speaker 3 00:16:47 Yeah. So that's really important. Um, because a lot of people do have assumptions. And for me, just basically, um, you know, I'm really here to share my story. Um, I'm here to share my story because I, I want to be myself. I want to, and I want to help other people more importantly. Um, and I think that a big barrier to me sharing my story is what people think, what are people gonna think and what assumptions are they gonna make? Um, I think that a lot of people have perceptions. And for me, it's scary because you don't want people to look at you as incompetent, um, because you're being vulnerable and you're sharing things that they don't really understand. Um, so I hope that answers your question or the follow-up, but that's what that looks like for me is just fear. There's always a fear of being my authentic self because of how people are going to interpret my barriers and how there will me
Speaker 1 00:18:00 That is answering my question, because what I hear you saying is your reaction to who and what I have lived through is your reaction to who and what I have lived through. And if you need to process that elsewhere, please by all means do, and I will be a resource in, in, in helping you understand that journey, but that has no bearing on my competence that has no bearing on my ability to execute for you. And I think for a lot of people, those things get really conflated together very quickly.
Speaker 3 00:18:38 Exactly. And going back to my experience, um, just to elaborate on that a little more, I feel like I'm a walking Testament, that those barriers that I face do not determine my, whether or not I'm competent. Um, as of today, what I'm doing at Heller, I'm working as a consultant, um, over the past. I mean, over the past two years, I have grown substantially and, um, I've had a CR over the past two years, I've had an incredible amount of promotion and growth. And none of that had to do with what I've been through, uh, or what, what I've been through did not impact whether, what I was able to accomplish. Um, if anything, I was able to turn my pain into power, like working at Heller, um, even working at now, it matters. Like I never let my barriers get in the way of my growth. I took off. I, I didn't know what Salesforce was when I started off as assistant, but as soon as I found out I took off with it and I ran and I didn't let anything stop me. Anything that I've been through and, you know, that's again, you know, that's why I'm so grateful for it. And because I believed in myself, but now matters, believed in me too. And you didn't have to, especially after hearing my story, but you did. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:20:08 Well, I also want to say, um, you know, now it matters to join the team. There's a two-week tryout and that we, like, we don't just let people onto the Mount matters team. Um, and so I, I think it's really important to note here, like, yeah, you earned your spot on the team and, um, and that's because you are competent. And, um, and we did see you every day, like show up and take on the next thing. And I don't, I found out later, I didn't know at the, that you had come from and just looking back at it now, like, this is like two and a half years ago, you were homeless and you started working for now, all matters. You were in that amount of time. You have, uh, like by the time this airs, you will have graduated with a bachelor's in sociology.
Speaker 2 00:21:06 You will have been promoted four different times in two different companies, uh, received your Salesforce admin certification. Like it is really important to note, like you're already a very gifted person. And, um, and I think that that, that is really like yours to own, like, you've done such a great job of, of moving so far so quickly. Um, and a lot of us have been honored to watch that, um, and your, your past has, by my observation, it has affected you. It has made things even harder. And you've actually just push through that. Um, and I, I think that it's right, that you've turned your pain into power, but that pain continues to sometimes get in the way. And I think that that is okay. And I think that that's important to note. Um, and I know that because recently you put something on Facebook about your past, uh, not Facebook, sorry, LinkedIn. That was incredibly vulnerable. And, um, I've, I've loved the kids. And have you talk about, um, you know, what, what you put on there, um, about your history in trafficking and what that looks like? Um,
Speaker 3 00:22:22 Yes. And I would love to talk about that today. Uh, thank you, Tim. So I am a trafficking survivor, and, um, I was a lot of people wonder what does that mean and how, you know, how did you get into that? What happened? Um, well, I wasn't kidnapped. Um, basically I grew up with my father was incarcerated. My mom had a substance abuse issue, so, um, there was a little neglect going on, uh, when I was a teenager and I had to grow up, sorry. Oh yeah. I grew up in Minneapolis, Minnesota, by the way. Okay. Yeah. So I, um, I ended up meeting this guy, this older guy, um, that just, you know, in the beginning, acted as a boyfriend and what he was doing during this time was basically identifying my vulnerabilities as a teenage girl, um, fathers, brothers, out of the picture, mom's suffering from substance abuse. This girl's looking for love, right. She's probably missing at the end of the day. And
Speaker 2 00:23:37 So how old was he?
Speaker 3 00:23:40 26. Okay. Yep. And Don keep in mind, this is, it's a manipulation thing. I'm like, this is what I try for her does. This is what a trafficker looks like is an older guy preying on younger girls because we're vulnerable. Our brains are still developing. We're easy to manipulate and control because, you know, we're, we're young and we're, what is it called naive and things like that. Um, but it started off as like a boyfriend relationship and basically, um, you know, things were okay, think it was like a normal, healthy relationship. And then it turned into, uh, verbal abuse and physical abuse. And it's like, they do everything to lift you up. And then to get you under their control, they do everything to bring you down. They tell you you're nothing, you're never going to be anything. Um, and they tell you this constantly, and you know, they, they manipulate you, they Gaslight you.
Speaker 3 00:24:58 And this goes on for a certain amount of time. And then they convinced you to do things for them for money. Um, and that's how a lot of girls and a lot of women get involved in our life. And it doesn't just happen to girls. It happens to women. It just happens to, it happens to men and it happens to people that are vulnerable, um, that are walking in shame and looking for love. And, you know, it happens right in your backyard. And so that's how I got into that lifestyle. Um, and that's how I became a victim, which I don't consider myself a victim today. I'm a survivor. Uh, just to make that clear, there's a difference. Um, but that's how I got that
Speaker 2 00:25:48 Different. Can you speak to that for just a
Speaker 3 00:25:51 Second? Um, yeah, so a victim, um, to me, a victim can still be victimized. A victim is somebody that is so powerless. The victim is someone that, you know, is still mentally stuck in that, that manipulation. Um, like for years it took me years to realize that my trafficker didn't love me, you know, because I was a victim. But now that I'm a survivor, I realized that wasn't love, like when somebody loves you, they would never treat you the way that they did. And more importantly, you take your power back and you set boundaries and you're able to walk away from those people and cut them out your life. Because as a victim, that takes a lot to do, you've been conditioned since you were a child, it's a walk away from this person. Um, and more importantly, a survivor is somebody that is no longer ashamed and can walk in the room and say, yeah, I survived this.
Speaker 3 00:27:00 And look who I am today. My past that survivor understands that their past doesn't define them. And that, that pain is nothing more but power. So that's the difference. Thanks for it. That's a great question by the way. Um, took me a long time to realize that, uh, to figure to figure it out, but I am a survivor, a proud survivor. Um, but yeah, so I was in that life for, um, until my late twenties, early twenties. And, um, he ended up getting incarcerated. And so that's how we got kind of separated and I ended up going to treatment and, you know, I was finally kind of free. Um, I went to programs, I completed programs at nonprofits. This is where my passion for nonprofits comes in because what I was transitioning out of the life, if it wasn't for nonprofit organizations, like, I don't know what kind of other resources would have been available.
Speaker 3 00:28:10 And I'm tall. I was a single mom and two kids. So I was working with food banks. I was working with organizations that help women or domestic violence of women that suffer from mental health. And that's when I really established my passion for nonprofits and realized like the importance, because I was a client at one point I was on the client side and I understand like the importance of having nonprofit organizations in society to help people, um, without them, I don't know where I would be today. Uh, but I, my nonprofit background. So it's funny. One of the nonprofits I started working there, um, I was so motivated to have an opportunity to overcome what I overcame. I graduated the program, um, and there was something in me where I wouldn't feel right if I didn't give back. And just, it just so happened that they had an internship for a receptionist at this nonprofit that I was applying to.
Speaker 3 00:29:22 And so I completed the internship and then, um, I did well and I got promoted to a donations cordinator and that's how I got my nonprofit background. And it was the most rewarding thing that I've ever done is to be able be on the other side and give back to the women that face the same barriers that I could face. Um, and then here I am a few years later working for this amazing technology, Salesforce consulting for the focus is on nonprofits. And I'm like, so you mean to tell me, I can like help all of these nonprofits at one time, maximize their mission through technology. And honestly, that's why I took off. And that's why I didn't want to be an assistant. I wanted to be, you know, frontline as engagement consultant. I wanted to be in the back end doing the configuration. And now I'm doing user stories that Heller and, um, participating and assessments and advising them on which CRM to use. And it's, it's exciting. And these are organizations, you know, that I've seen myself. It's just a beautiful thing because I seen myself on the other side, when I was a client, like we work with food banks, you know, we work with multiple organizations that help children. My children have been involved with nonprofits to receive resources. And so it's just, that's my, that's why I'm so passionate about doing the work that I do today. And that's why I'm so grateful for now. It matters because I wouldn't have had this opportunity, you know,
Speaker 2 00:31:19 Christine there's, uh, uh, I mean, just, um, just knowing who you are and hearing about someone taking advantage of you like that. Um, and hearing how far you've come is just kind of mind blowing, even though I've known you for a long time, but there are parts of this story that I'm just finding out today. Um, and I'll, and, and maybe I can just speak to that. I knew that you were a trafficking survivor and thanks for, thanks for the adjustment on, on vocab there. Um, but I, I, I've always been really curious about what that meant, but I've always felt like a hive. Like I can't, I can't talk about that or, you know, um, and honestly as an employer, maybe there, that wasn't right. Um, but when you started to work at Heller, I still was like, still very curious. Um, but so hesitant about asking the questions about that. And so, um, you know, when you, and I talked about doing this, one of the things I appreciated about you wanting to tell your story is just saying, like, ask, ask the questions and let's have that conversation. So that's kind of a big lead-up because some of what, um, going to ask you still feels really uncomfortable. Um, but I think it's important to ask. And, um, Tracy, I know from your background and experience, you know, more about this than I do. So, um, one, one of the songs
Speaker 1 00:32:54 And grab a bag of popcorn and watch his struggle with it is that
Speaker 2 00:33:00 Just dig a hole. Um, I've I really have always thought that like trafficking means you're like kidnapped and thrown in a van and a bag over your head and, you know, you have no contact with your family and, and, and all of that. And so it's part of what's blowing my mind here is that, um, is the power, the, the power of that mind control. And I don't know what the right word for it is, but like, you were like, you were in contact with your family, I'm assuming during this time, but they didn't know what was happening or, you know, I'm assuming they didn't know, um, w what was happening to you. How, how is that possible? How does that, like, it just, it just doesn't make sense to me in some ways.
Speaker 3 00:33:50 Absolutely. And you know, what time I, I appreciate you for having the courage to have this uncomfortable conversation and to ask these questions, because this is what survivors need is for people that don't understand to understand and to ask these questions is really important. So thank you. Um, and as far as like, my family knew, I like to compare this situation to somebody that's suffering from substance abuse issues. Um, if you're familiar with that, you know, you can't help, like, think of it. Like you have somebody like the trafficker becomes like the drug, this person is hooked on this other individual. So my family was aware and oftentimes the family are aware, but it's, it's like trying to get an addict to go to treatment when they're not ready. And so your family can do everything in their power to try to get you away, but if you're not ready to leave, you know, it's no different than a woman that's been involved in a domestic violence relationship, you know, you can't force her to leave. And so that's, that's how that happens. And that's the big issue is that's how intense, like the manipulation is. And the manipulation could be,
Speaker 1 00:35:21 I have a follow on that, Christine, like, so one of the distinctions that I have always been aware of, uh, you know, to Tim's point, you know, there is this explicit manipulation of another human being for the benefit of someone else via verbal, physical, or other forms of abuse and manipulation, and for lack of a better word, psychological kind of torture. And, you know, that does differentiate, you know, Tim from, I think the scenario that you've described in that is like, I'm just abducted somewhere, which also happens in this world. Um, but one thing about trafficking, and for that matter, Christine, you touched on this a little bit too, about the nature of abuse and manipulation in general is that it is much more prevalent and much more right in front of our faces than I think many of us imagine it to be. So my question really is I kind of know the answer to this in my mind, but I want to hear your words on this more than anything, if you're an employer, if you are someone who is working people, what are the cues that employers need to understand from two lenses?
Speaker 1 00:36:59 What are the cues that, that an employer might need to know that this person may be experiencing this live and in real time, and what are the cues that an employer needs to know about to support someone who has exited one of those circumstances that might indicate that that employer is not doing as good a job supporting that employee as they could.
Speaker 3 00:37:28 Those are great questions. Um, so honestly, um, as far as like an employer, being able to identify if somebody's currently working for them is currently a victim. Um, most traffickers won't allow their victims to work at a normal job. They solely put them in the streets or in strip clubs. Now there are cases where that could happen or they could be on the verge of being, they could be, um, let's call it condition. And the verge of being conditioned, um, things to look for are just, um, you know, like maybe a change in behavior. Um, new boyfriends, just maybe, I don't know, that's actually a really good question because I haven't really heard of that scenario. Like most, most women are being trafficked live don't have normal jobs. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 00:38:39 It does. I just want to get as much of this out as possible, because I think, you know, towards the second question, there's a lot that we could do if we knew what it is that could in genders. Right. And that is, so you have an employee who like yourself has literally come out of the other end of this tunnel as a survivor. What makes your experience as an employee different and how are mechanisms constructed to better support you?
Speaker 3 00:39:20 So, um, the biggest thing that supported me, um, the best way I felt supported being a survivor. And while I was working at now matters as again, just having that space where I could talk about it. Um, I didn't have to have any shame. Like I remember, uh, Joni, you know, I was so ashamed. I was ashamed. I wasn't ashamed because of the company or anything. Anybody did. I was just ashamed because that's how I was when I first started working at now matters. Um, you know, I was still in the process of going through therapy. I'd never told anybody my story. Everybody's like, don't ever tell your employer what you've been through. You know, people actually will tell you that. And then I had a talk with Joanie Bryan, and she's just like, you know, we're just doing our one-on-one meeting. And she just bust out and plays his video of her, uh, doing a talk. I think it was at a self. It was at a Salesforce event and she had everybody in tears and she's talking about, you know, the barriers she had faced and the importance of being vulnerable and being authentic. And then she just stopped. And she's like, what do you think about that?
Speaker 1 00:40:48 That's very Joni by the way.
Speaker 3 00:40:52 And you know, she, she always took pride in telling people Christine's a survivor of trafficking. And, you know, when I seen everybody's response at now, it matters and they're like, go, wow. You know, like Christine, you're such an amazing person. Like, we don't care about that. I mean, we're not, not, it's not that we don't care, but we're not, there's no judgment, you know? And that made me realize it's crazy because it made me realize that everything that my trafficker ever told me was wrong, that people, my trafficker would tell me, I could never work a normal job. Nobody would ever accept me. And that's what, you know, companies don't think about it cause they don't know. But just having that space, that invalidated what I was taught meant a lot. And you know, now it matters. You all are so big on mental health stuff and just really supporting your staff a hundred, providing those safe spaces where I could come and talk. And I remember going to Joanie, I remember being able to go to Angela and say, you know, I'm feeling, I'm feeling, this is how I feel today. I'm just feeling bad. My past is bothering me. And just having that safe space where you're not just treated like an employee, you're treated like a human being.
Speaker 2 00:42:27 That's so hard for me to hear, uh, yeah. Christine that, uh, someone, someone would intentionally want you to believe. So, so many lies about yourself. Um, uh, and I think it's hard for me because I do know how you are, how amazing you are. And, um, and, uh, so yeah, it's just really, you said that, you know, I know that you're a trafficker became incarcerated. What, w w at what point did you, like, did you know you were being tried? This is the dumbest question, but did you know you were being trafficked?
Speaker 3 00:43:09 That's not a dumb question. It took me a long time. I went back and forth. Um, it wasn't until he got incarcerated that I thought about it because I went to a program that's specialized in working with trafficking victims, and they have like an intensive six week program where they have to uncondition you and they have to teach you that you were a victim. If that makes sense. And if I hadn't went through that program, I'd probably be still saying that, you know, no, I wasn't a victim. I wasn't victimized. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 00:43:45 And did you explain what was happening to you in it, you know, when it was happening?
Speaker 3 00:43:53 I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 00:43:56 Oh yeah, no, my question is how, um, when it was happening, what, what did you think was happening? Like what, w how, how did you,
Speaker 3 00:44:07 Oh, I thought this was my boyfriend and this was what I was, this was my life. This is what I was meant to do and meant to be, because that's what he told me.
Speaker 1 00:44:19 I think there's two really interesting and powerful things here, Christine. Um, if I could pick apart a couple of one is this is a scenario that is different than someone who voluntarily chooses sex work as a profession. And I think why that's important, uh, you know, having known a number of women who have been current and former sex workers in my own world, you know what I think you're doing very powerfully. And really Christine is calling out that this was a process of longitudinal manipulation and longitudinal sort of erosion of who you were, this wasn't you saying? I voluntarily choose to do anything. And why? I think that is so important to call out is your second statement. And that is, I needed a place to be where I could freely say something like my past has caught up with me today. Um, that statement is not something that many of us who have gone through years or decades of work in the it industry always feel empowered to say, even if it's true, and that just hit me really hard in the heart, I need you to know that because there have been many days in my corporate career, and even trying to just do my own thing where my own past have caught up with me.
Speaker 1 00:46:19 And I've been able to say nothing about that either because of my own fear, or because there was no context, like what you're talking about,
Speaker 3 00:46:31 Because you didn't have the space,
Speaker 1 00:46:33 Didn't have the space, didn't have an employer that was so focused on that didn't have the right friends or the right mechanisms. And what I want to ask you actually is for somebody who is looking at this or listening to this, and they're wondering, how do I create that space? What is your suggestion in terms of saying, what are the actions that a company or an employer or leader or a manager can do that creates that space that allows you to say, Hey, man, my past caught up with me today and I just need to stop for a minute and feel truly empowered in doing so
Speaker 3 00:47:22 Well. My suggestion is for one, um, allow and encourage all of your, to always be their authentic self and to be vulnerable. Um, one thing that now matters that is it doesn't just relate to me being a trafficking. It's about building connection and feeling accepted like as a black woman, you know, feeling accepted and heard and understood when things were going on. Like, um, the George Ford situation. I felt like I wasn't alone in that when I came to work. So just knowing, supporting, you're supporting your employees from diverse backgrounds, you know, and just letting them know that you hear them, you see them, like, even though like, you guys didn't have to acknowledge what was going on, but you did. And that meant a lot to me. And that made me feel safe. And that gave me, that made me feel like I had a space to come to whoever I needed to come to and say, you know, I'm bothered today.
Speaker 3 00:48:39 Does that make sense? Um, another thing is, um, Heller currently working at Heller. They have a, uh, they're very supportive on DEI. They took a lot of initiatives to support DEI and, um, I'm not as open there because I feel like I kind of overcame a lot of stuff. Like I don't mean to keep talking about it, you know, but I feel comfortable. Like, I feel like I have a voice if I need it to do that, I can, I have that safe space. It's just, what I'm trying to say is what company's employer is gonna do is a build a connection. Let your employees know that they're heard. And me like, just talk about stuff and provide a space to have a conversation about things that are hard to talk about. Like, Tim, you always say, you know, this conversation's uncomfortable, but you're willing to take that initiative and you don't understand like, well, you probably do, but it makes everybody else comfortable Asking me questions. Oh, sorry. When you're asking me questions about, you know, my experience as a trafficking victim, that makes me feel like you generally, you genuinely care.
Speaker 2 00:50:15 Yeah. I think, um, I had a moment and I think your, um, well, like 19 thoughts and 20 emotions hit me all at the same time. And like, it's going to take me a second to unpick some of that. Um, and I can't remember the sequencing on it, but what I will, what I'll say is regardless of the sequence, your willingness to talk about this. And I was there for the, uh, three times I saw Joni give that talk, live, saw grown men cry. Maybe I was one of them, whatever. And, um, and just, uh, saw so many staff be willing to say the truth about their lives that, you know, um, a couple of weeks ago or months ago, um, I just put out, uh, uh, why it matters. That included my story of attempting suicide and being in, um, a, a religious community that I found really harmful.
Speaker 2 00:51:24 And, um, and I think that, that, I think maybe part of what I'm trying to say is that these, the ability to share, and this is what Joanie always says, right? Like when I share my story, I find out that other people have that story too. And I don't have Joanie story exactly, but I've got something I've got parts of it. And, uh, I have, I have pain in my story. Not, not anything like yours or Joanie's, and that's not, what's important. What I do have that LA last year or earlier this year became really clear to me is as CEO, I have the ability to create the space for that or not. And that, I don't think many CEOs know that if they don't, if they don't create the space for their staff to have their pasts kept up with them, their staff can't be free to have their past catch up, that there is actually work that needs to happen at the top about saying things like, Hey, depression's kicking my ass today.
Speaker 2 00:52:36 I'm checking out. And that's easy for me to do because I'm not worried about losing my job. And it's still hard for me to do. And I'm not worried about losing my job. How much harder is it for staff to say, you know, to, to tell the truth about, about this circumstances as well. Um, and I, I do, I think it's important for you to know that, that your bravery on telling your story, um, and being a survivor is actually really, really, I think you may not know how much it impacts people that don't have a similar story, but do you have pain in their lives that they can identify with that? It, it gives them, um, the bravery to tell their stories as well. So, um, but I really thank you.
Speaker 3 00:53:27 Thank you, Tom. Exactly. And that's really, my I'm really grateful to be here. I'm really grateful to have been a part of now. It matters. It, it changed my life drastically, um, in a good way. I'm really grateful to be a part of Heller changed live chain as a speaking, as a survivor of trafficking, you know, it's, it's just so important to feel supported by these companies. Um, and I'm just, I'm just really grateful. I'm just really grateful. Like basically, you know, you're going to hell or have invalidated everything that I've been taught for the past 10 years by giving me a space to be great, to be who I am and to be greatness. Um, and I'm just really grateful to have this opportunity to talk about this, because this is a hard conversation. A lot of people don't want to talk about it, but it needs to be talked about, and it needs to be heard. And so I just want to say thank you as well. I'm a little nervous today, my first podcast, but I'm really grateful. And
Speaker 2 00:54:49 The first time you're like telling your story, um, kind of more on a more public
Speaker 3 00:54:54 In a more.
Speaker 1 00:54:56 Yep. Yeah. I think the thing that is true, um, that I hear in your words, and this is, you know, going to be part of our January 20, 22 podcasts, right? So, you know, the thing that connects with everything that we've been talking about particularly this month is put the work in like put the work in, and that's what I'm hearing come out of what you're saying. And that is because look, you as an employee worked for two different companies who were willing to put the work in, uh, and because they were, and they were willing to have comfortable and uncomfortable, and frankly, sometimes humiliating and shameful realizations about who they were and why they were acting the way they were, and then change your life, changed your entire world changed. And I think that's a huge lesson to take out of this as employers is that, you know, Christine, I've worked with you on countless projects in the past year.
Speaker 1 00:56:17 And I was like, you know, I'll be candid and say, my attitude, I'm sorry, is I'm not worried about this. Christine's on it. Like, she'll get back to me when she's done. And then it'll be just done because my experience working with you was with someone who was extraordinarily competent, and then you would just come back and be like, okay, I've got questions about AB and C and D and F. And like, so why would I as a human being ever, you know, be denied working with someone of your caliber because the company I worked for, wasn't willing to put in the work, you know, and, and that's a huge lesson for us all in this story. And that is, this is the outcome we want.
Speaker 3 00:57:06 Absolutely. Thank you so much, Tracy. I appreciate your kind words by the way. Um,
Speaker 1 00:57:16 I miss, you
Speaker 3 00:57:18 Know, that's what I'm thinking. Like, you know, I'm in the, I'm in the middle of a mental health crisis right now, and this really it's things like this. Like, keep me going, keep me alive, keep me well. So I just want to say thank you. And, um, that's another thing I wanted to talk about what we can do, do another one.
Speaker 2 00:57:38 Yeah, no, I actually want to say a little bit about that, Christine, please. Um, which is that I, you know, part of what emerged on, um, in, in what you talked about on LinkedIn, um, Joni also put a Kickstarter out for you. Uh, not Kickstarter, sorry. Uh, GoFund me. Um, because some of the, some of your past catching up with you, um, has put you in a, in a mental health space where you need to take care of yourself. And I want to say, first of all, like Heller is an amazing company. I really, really appreciate what Keith Jeffrey and Smita have done in my turn
Speaker 1 00:58:23 To forget Maya
Speaker 2 00:58:24 And Maya
Speaker 1 00:58:27 Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:58:29 Years and years of commitment around that. Um, it, you know, in, in creating a, a space in which their, their employees are actually, um, so well cared for and, you know, uh, I, I think that that's a real Testament to them. And part of that showed up when you felt comfortable saying, this is what I need. Um, I know some of that because you contacted me and the, in the process on that. And, um, and I felt so comfortable saying like, they're going to understand, you just need to let them know the other reason I'm bringing that up is that to listeners out there, there is a go-fund me, and we're going to put it in the show notes. And, and there's a moment here where not all of your treatment has been covered. And, um, and I would love to have, um, have go and, and, um, pay back what they're hearing from you on, on the story and, and donate to your, um, to your fund me. And so we'll put that in the show notes. Um, and I would like to give you a chance to talk for a couple of minutes about what that has been like, um, for you and where you are now and, and how things are going.
Speaker 3 00:59:47 Yeah. So I mean, being a trafficking survivor, I had suffered a lot of trauma and, um, you know, I'm still working through that trauma today. And as a result, um, I'm currently in a outpatient treatment program for my mental health. And, you know, at first I was really ashamed and I'm like, oh, nobody can find out. And now I'm just like, you know, it happens. It is what it is. It's okay. And I do want to say, thank you, Tim, for always being vulnerable about your mental health, because that encouraged me to share my story and really gave me a lot of courage to talk about it today. Um, I think that's much needed. I wish more CEOs, CEOs would step up and do things like that. Um, and I do want to thank Keller as well, because they've been very supportive throughout this process.
Speaker 3 01:00:42 Um, but yeah, that's where I'm at with my mental health and, um, I'm getting better and I'm, I'm just grateful to have the support system that I do. I'm really grateful for, again, this opportunity, because this helps me with my mental health. This is like a processing group, you know? Uh, so thank you for that. And, uh, anybody that is suffering from a mental health, please get help. Don't be ashamed. Um, especially black women in our community. Mental health is not talked about enough, it's overlooked. Um, you know, please reach out for help if you need it.
Speaker 2 01:01:25 I know I can already tell that people that are listening to this are going to want to know if you're okay with them reaching out to you on LinkedIn or whatever, and, uh, and asking where to find some of those resources.
Speaker 3 01:01:39 Absolutely. Absolutely. Please reach out if you just need someone to talk to you. I am in the process of trying to start a mentorship group, um, for women that have faced any barriers. Um, I mean, just women in general, but especially if you've faced any barriers, homelessness trafficking survivors suffer from mental health, substance abuse. Uh, I definitely want to start providing mentorship to help you guide you through the ecosystem.
Speaker 1 01:02:14 And it is, by the way, I will point out for our listeners. There is world of care out there that, you know, I can only speak to you from my frame of reference, and this is not my conversation. So I will only briefly stay. I had a very unbelievably violent childhood and early adulthood, and there is a system of care structures out there that when a person like myself is feeling trapped in my past, feels very hard to access and very hard to understand. And even if I do know how to access it and understand it, sometimes the literal barriers are the fact that most insurance companies don't cover the kinds of things truly necessary to recover appropriately from violence and from trauma. And those kinds of treatments are not cheap. They are frequently piecemeal and they are often done, you know, as a last resort when they should really be done first and foremost. And I think that's a whole nother thing to dive into as an employer when it comes to equity of care. And that is what does our healthcare provide for? And what does it, where are these kinds of gaps? And I guarantee you, if you do some digging into it, you will find gaps in these areas. So just a note for our listeners who are employers, this is one reason why that GoFund me exists is because these kinds of things do not come as part of ordinary employee care.
Speaker 2 01:04:04 Um, Christine, by the time we live in, thank you for that, Tracy, that is that I think it's really easy for CEOs and C-suite, um, decision makers around things like what plans do we cover? And those have high cost implications. It's really easy to forget how real world those decisions end up being. Like, it's just very easy to forget that. And not everybody has a Jenny Lockie on staff with them that read every line plan and make sure that we're optimizing like that, you know? Um, and so, um, I, I also, Christine, um, we didn't really talk about it that much, but your graduate, like the things that you have done in the last few years, like you're graduating in a matter of weeks now. Um, and if I remember correctly, you have the class load right now of like five classes as a good job. I'm so bad.
Speaker 3 01:05:08 It's not needed. I, um, yeah, I did wrap one. Yeah. I'm taking four classes and I am graduating with honors with a major in sociology.
Speaker 1 01:05:18 I think a mom. Yeah. You're one of those weird January's diplomas, right? Yeah. Yeah. I got one of those too. Yup.
Speaker 2 01:05:26 Um, yeah. So what, uh, what's the graduation date? I think it's mid December. What's the
Speaker 3 01:05:32 December 10th is the ceremony. Yep.
Speaker 2 01:05:36 And last day of classes. When, when do you turn your last work in?
Speaker 3 01:05:41 I believe December 3rd is that next week.
Speaker 1 01:05:44 It was so close. The time of recording at the time of recording next week. Everybody's going to be listening to this in January, 2022, but yeah,
Speaker 3 01:05:53 Don't remind me, I have a lot of work to do finals always. Yeah, no, remind me, I'm graduating. You're right. You're
Speaker 1 01:06:01 Graduating. It's a done deal by now there.
Speaker 2 01:06:04 Yeah. It's just so, um, so incredible. And um, yeah, I, I, I also feel like I'm sure you know this, but in case you don't, um, like you are particularly gifted, um, you are like that, what you're doing here is I don't think it's normal, uh, for someone to come this far in, in the summer time. And I know I'm very proud of the team here and now matters and what we've accomplished in creating a space for you to grow same thing with Heller. But, um, but that, that doesn't mean it's been easy for you and it doesn't mean that anybody except you has done the work. Um, and, uh, so we're really excited, really impressed, and I'm so grateful to be a friend of yours and, uh, so excited to see what your future holds. Thank you. Thank you for the bottom of my heart. Thank you for sharing your story and being willing to do that, um, about being a survivor.
Speaker 3 01:07:05 Thank you for giving me the platform to do something. I appreciate it. Thanks for your kind words.
Speaker 1 01:07:13 I'm Tracy, Crohn's Zack, and you've been listening to why it matters.
Speaker 2 01:07:17 Um, white matters is a thought leadership project of now. It matters a strategic services from offering, advising and guiding to nonprofit and social impact organizations.
Speaker 1 01:07:26 If you like what you've heard, please subscribe, check out our playlist and visit us at now. It matters.com.
